Autopilot homing question - what after reaching home ?

[AndreK]

at 200meters altitude, I switched off the RC-radio and autopilot guided the plane straight home. - a gentle large turn and then flew directly over me.
What happened later, is strange, it seems it just kept on going, when it was 400meters away, the video became poor, and I took over, turned,*almost* 180degree, and when 350meters from home, again switched off RC-radio.
It guided the plane over home again.

Question, what happened ? - why did it not circle back over home position, after passing it ? - how can I make it do so.

[Alex Villa]

Maybe need to increase the maximum bank angle, and//or increase "Bank proportional gain". Just guessing but maybe if all its set to be to much stable, when the palne its exactly 180° away from home, it gets confused about wich side to make the bank, and keeps oscillating there. I find this very unlikely to happens due to the inherent unstability of the system, but who knows.

[Alex Villa]

btw I would love to know how you conected the OSD, to the elevator//rudder or elevator//ailerons?

[AndreK]

As I understand it:
The autopilot is controlling elevator+rudder, FMA sensors does correct ailerons.

your theory sounds likely to be correct, if I turn on the transmitter, change course , then switch it off, autopilot works again.

My two possible *guesses* was that it only navigated to the start point, then kept course (guessed design flaw/bug) - OR, that it only navigated to the start point once per signal loss. (bug)

I am otherwise happy with how it the settings work.
please, in future version, force it to decide for one side to turn to. even if course is pretty exactly 180 away.

[Alex Villa]

Nope you are wrong, on the aileron output the autopilot will output always the value set on "Set neutral aileron" It will do all the corrections on the rudder and elevator outputs. Remember this system is highly focused on the EZstar plane (rudder+elevator) only. However you can switch the aileron in//out with the rudder in//out if your plane has ailerons.
So if your ailerons are conected to the aileron output, they will be just set leveled on autopilot mode, thus the broken linkage you had wasent RVOSD fault. :D

[AndreK]

Nope you are wrong, on the aileron output the autopilot will output always the value set on "Set neutral aileron" It will do all the corrections on the rudder and elevator outputs."

That's actually what I meant, and tried to write down. :)
"The autopilot is controlling elevator+rudder, FMA sensors does correct ailerons."



So if your ailerons are conected to the aileron output, they will be just set leveled on autopilot mode, thus the broken linkage you had wasent RVOSD fault. :D

but I did, (on purpose) knife-edge the plane, and shut down the transmitter, while in knife-edge - FMA sensors would use ailerons to correct the plane. - and this is where I think it drove the servo too far.
(The reason for me to use just a bit of servo's natural throw, is to use small servo horns, and short servo-rod-munts on control surfaces in order to reduce reduce drag and make it look nice) - so It's not simply incompetence, - I've been flying for ~17years, and fly mostly helicopters.

[Alex Villa]

lol, when I say "autopilot" i am talking also of the FMA heads. The FMA heads never are in direct control of the plane, the autopilot manage the leveling and heading itself.

It works like this, The FMA sensors just tell the system what the plane angle is, then the autopilot handle leveling and heading based on those angles and GPS heading info. Then it takes control of the rudder and elevator channels to pilot the plane. Aileron channel output its always set to a steady value set on the menu "Set neutral aileron", and all the corrections are made on the rudder output channel.

[AndreK]

I think we just don't understand each other in writing - I did not had any fancy ideas of what FMA sensors do, other than work as sensor for the autopilot.

So let's establish one last thing:
the ailerons are being used based on the FMA-sensors , "by autopilot"
- while rudder+elevator is being used for the actual navigation that the autopilot does.

- if "yes" then this is what I have always believed from the time I received the RVOSD

[Alex Villa]

This is what I am trying to say, the ailerons are not used.
Stabilization and navigation, all is done with the rudder and elevator channels.

[AndreK]

wow - I am really surprised now :)
Why is it so ?
would it not be easier, better, and more reliable to use ailerons ? (for roll control)

When I say better/reliable, it's because aileron can change the roll of a plane faster, with more more power (to counter wind) than rudder can.

[reznikvova]

You can use ailerons for autopilot steering and stabilization, just connect your aileron servo to the rudder output of RVOSD.

Alex means, that the Aileron Output of RVOSD is not used for autopilot steering or stabilization- that is done on the rudder output.

[AndreK]

which method do you think is "best" ?
What's the drawback ?

[Alex Villa]

which method do you think is "best" ?
What's the drawback ?
If your plane has ailerons, I strongly suggest to switch aileron and rudder I//Os. Roll control using the ailerons is more natural than using the rudder.

[Alex Villa]

wow - I am really surprised now :)
Why is it so ?
would it not be easier, better, and more reliable to use ailerons ? (for roll control)

When I say better/reliable, it's because aileron can change the roll of a plane faster, with more more power (to counter wind) than rudder can.
The most used FPV platform is the EZstar, so for the sake of compatibility RVOSD AP has to be able to pilot a rudder+elevator only plane.

[AndreK]

After swapping the rudder/aileron, I will need to learn that the manu-items are wrong - will next firmware give the option to rename the menu-items - or better, change which channel is used by autopilot, so all connections can remain connected as labeled ?

[Alex Villa]

Keep in mind that you might need to change "Yaw servo direction", I suggest to do this test while still in the ground, setting servo directions in the air can make the plane go out of control very fast if the AP takes control with wrong servo direction set.

[AndreK]

setting servo directions in the air can make the plane go out of control very fast if the AP takes control with wrong servo direction set.

I did that as safe altitude a few times :) - so I know what you mean.

swapping these two channels, was not very neat solution, menu-items involving aileron, and rudder needed extra attention while setting, because they are swapped.
Failsafe-settings were wrong until reset. - causing a few dangerous seconds.
Also , programming in flight was done with elevator=item, aileron=value. now, suddenly rudder changes value, and does it in "reverse" (right reduces value, left increases)

Pretty-please: make a better solution to this in next firmware revision, let's connect all connectors "properly" - and only select what autopilot should do, control ailerons or rudder.

[Alex Villa]

btw, can we see a video of your system working? :D , up to date I only saw the video I made and from a guy on RCG, he was using the system with deffective Z sensor so it wasent a good example.

[AndreK]

sure, please comment on my previous post, and tell me what you would like to see, autopilot ? - I would rather not upload some 100MB with "boring" flight.

[Alex Villa]

I did that as safe altitude a few times :) - so I know what you mean.

swapping these two channels, was not very neat solution, menu-items involving aileron, and rudder needed extra attention while setting, because they are swapped.
Failsafe-settings were wrong until reset. - causing a few dangerous seconds.
Also , programming in flight was done with elevator=item, aileron=value. now, suddenly rudder changes value, and does it in "reverse" (right reduces value, left increases)

Pretty-please: make a better solution to this in next firmware revision, let's connect all connectors "properly" - and only select what autopilot should do, control ailerons or rudder.
Yes I understand it will be easier to make the menus change when you change the mode of operation, but having worked more than 1 year on RVOSD, I can say this will need serious programming, also keep in mind that we plan to support other configurations like differential ailerons. I know you and others have a bag of requests, I am taking notes on that, however I need to analize those requests and decide wich ones are prioritary and can be made in a reasonable time lapse.

[AndreK]

sure, I assume swapping the output channel in software is not "that big deal" - but it would surely help people understand the device better.
What would you like the video to show `? - I'm still looking for a useful splitting tool, it's a MP4 container with h264 stream.

[elpimous]

Hello guys,
I'm flying on a Super dimona 2.40m !!!
Autopilot would be very efficace with ailerons control !!!:p
However, I need to test aileron/rudder change !

Well, for an aileron firmware change, I need it too.:p

RVOSD is a very good product! seems to be strong !!
Before, I had a dragon osd (a very nice product) but not very protected in case of crashes, more expensive, really SLOW SCREEN, and not as pro presented as rvosd ! :cool:

Vincent.

[Alex Villa]

sure, I assume swapping the output channel in software is not "that big deal" - but it would surely help people understand the device better.
What would you like the video to show `? - I'm still looking for a useful splitting tool, it's a MP4 container with h264 stream.
The AHI, and autopilot recovering from different attitudes, and heading toward home.

[studiopetros]

Hi Alex
I have the sensors now.
PLease tell me what is the best choise for my easy glider platform:
aileron/elevator autopilot or ruder/elevator?
What you think?

[studiopetros]

Have anybodi opinion for the upper question?

[reznikvova]

Aileron control will be better than rudder control.

[Jerry]

Have anybodi opinion for the upper question?

Hi, my opinion is: if you use two channels for ailerons and using them also as airbrakes or flaps for landing (and you need it to slow your much havier plane AVS), then use rudder because you can controll only one channel. If you don´t use ailerons to slow down while landing, than connect them with Y cable on one channel and use them also to control the plane position. It is better probably.
But maybe I am wrong ... good luck! J.

[studiopetros]

Thank you Vova and Jerry.
I have not problem with landings. So ailerons I think.
Any other opinions please???
Thanks

[bascuhadar]

I have a similar problem;

When I engage autopilot rudder function, rudder stick is not active as expected (I observe this both airplane’s attitude and from debug screen) but autopilot does not change airplane’s heading to home, airplane just keeps flying through its current heading. My configuration is given below. I even increased bank limit to 150 and bank proportional gain to 120 but nothing changed.

Two weeks ago, with an earlier firmware, OSD saved my Ez from an Rc linkt lost case, 2.9 km away from home. It simply switched to Autopilot on RTH function and changed the heading to home enabling me take control of airplane again in about 30-40 seconds. Unfortunately with new firmware I could not manage to function “autopilot rudder” properly.

Do you have any recommendations to correct this failure.


My configuration;
Easy Star with Easy Glider wings, 1.500 g flying weight
RVOSD Gen1
FMA Copilot CPD4 installed (aligned 45˚ with roll and pitch axes) between RVOSD and aileron/elevator servos
Last firmware downloaded (for GEN3), unlocked succesfully
Cabling and connection of servos, RVOSD, receiver, as instructed by the manual, I double checked. Autopilot RTH is on rudder channel.

Autopilot menu settings
“If R/C link lost” set to test in the air
“Bank limit” set to 75
“Bank proportional gain” set to 50
“Bank derivative gain” set to 15
“Bank integral gain” set to 40
“Turn rate gain” set to 20

İlhan

[Alex Villa]

the problem is just "autopilot rudder" or RTH is also working wrong?

[bascuhadar]

I did not courage to try RTH. I just tried autopilot rudder. So I don't know what will happen for RTH. I could only identify autopilot rudder problem.

[Alex Villa]

ok I will check the firmware. But I think I already tested this.

[bascuhadar]

Aileron control will be better than rudder control.

May I ask the same question for GEN1 users; which is better; RTH function on rudder or ailerons? But keep in mind that GEN1 RVOSD has no inherent IR stabilization feature. One can only add IR sensors externally such that it is not possible to limit bank angle while forcing ailerons to turn the airplane heading to home.

By the way, may I also ask why IR sensors can not be implemented to RVOSD GEN1? What is the limiting factor? Same processor, same firmare. Hardware input terminal physical structure may limit but directliy soldering on the PCB we may reach to the right contacts to connect IR sensors terminals?

[Alex Villa]

Gen1 does not have the internal wiring for thermopiles connection. I dont think is practical to do it manually.

[bascuhadar]

Gen1 does not have the internal wiring for thermopiles connection. I dont think is practical to do it manually.

If there is a way, I am willing to try. Just show me the way.

[Nufis]

Hi guys,

Wow, as a real plane pilot, I'm very surprised of how on earth you can affect planes roll at all using only rudder and elevator wihout touching ailerons. However I never tried such scenario in real life, but will surely try some time. To my best knowledge using rudder is the way to eliminate minor course deviation and using it too much makes plane slip sideways, thus loosing airspeed. But how can it affect roll? Is it some kind of havily uncoordinated turn you are using to achieve the result?
Btw, thats just a question of pure curiosity - just to understand what kind of physics sits behind that...

[seaQ]

Roll is affected by the rudder due to the wing tips being bent upwards on many of these planes!

[Alex Villa]

Bascundar, I will private mail you instructions about.
Nufis, Planes with high dihedral wings, like the Ez star, roll when you apply rudder. Not hard to figure out why.

[yakflyer]

Been reading through this thread and find your dicussions very interesting.
I am planning purchasing a Gen3 system shortly.
I am facinated with the RTH feature and was wondering if I could chime in with my 2 cents worth for further discussion.
Recently with the development of our economy, I have found digital gyros extremely cheap (less than $20 each).
Has anybody thought of incorperating gyros to help with heading hold?
I have been expermenting with gyros for about two months now with my 3D manuevers and precission manuevers. With the gain adjusted appropriately I have found the gyros to make my flights more crisp and very stable.
So my thought is to install a set of gyros in all three axis, set the gain on the low side, just enough to correct for stable flight (yaw/pitch/elevation)?
Love to read followup comments on this note.

[net-climber]

So my thought is to install a set of gyros in all three axis, set the gain on the low side, just enough to correct for stable flight (yaw/pitch/elevation)?

It's all about drift. The semiconductor gyros have a significant drift and are not suitable to keep a plane level for 10 minutes. A combination with acceleration sensors does the trick.

[Nufis]

Ahaa... :)
Thanks for a competent answer. I guessed, it has something to do wit dihedral effect, but was'nt very sure.

[bascuhadar]

ok I will check the firmware. But I think I already tested this.

Alex, have you found a chance to check the firmware.

İlhan

[bascuhadar]

Bascundar, I will private mail you instructions about.


Alex, I know that you are very busy for the ground station but idea of having a chance to use IR sensors with GEN1 really exited me, waiting for your PM.

İlhan

[Alex Villa]

Sorry, let me clear out the things I have pending here. Relative to autopilot rudder. I am not sure if this is working, but I know RTH is working as it should. If you set all the gains on the altitude control to zero, then activating RTH is pretty much like "autopilot rudder" because only heading control will be working.

[bascuhadar]

Sorry, let me clear out the things I have pending here. Relative to autopilot rudder. I am not sure if this is working, but I know RTH is working as it should. If you set all the gains on the altitude control to zero, then activating RTH is pretty much like "autopilot rudder" because only heading control will be working.
You are right, both are similar. However "autopilot rudder" gives me more flexibility in calibrating the gains, I simply toggle a switch to enable it. On the other hand to enable RTH I need to shut down the Tx power switch. Remember I GEN1 user.

Anyway if this firmware does not support autopilot rudder, I can try other ways (as you suggest), its OK.

If not, it seems that there might be something wrong with my set-up, and I want to fix it.

[Alex Villa]

Ok, yes I see autopilot rudder is not working. Working on it now. Sorry for taking so long to test this but I have a lot of pending work here.

[bascuhadar]

[QUOTE=bascuhadar;3323]May I ask the same question for GEN1 users; which is better; RTH function on rudder or ailerons? But keep in mind that GEN1 RVOSD has no inherent IR stabilization feature. One can only add IR sensors externally such that it is not possible to limit bank angle while forcing ailerons to turn the airplane heading to home.
QUOTE]

Vova, have you noticed my question? If it is not clear due to my english, I can try to express in an other way.

[Alex Villa]

Gen1 OSD RTH can only work on stable airplanes that self correct roll with high dihedral wings. It is sugested to use rudder and elevator to steer the plane. You add external copilot to non stable airplanes and then gen1 RTH will also work on this type of airplanes.

Gen2 and gen3 OSD with thermal IR sensors installed can manage a wide range of airplane types including flying wings. It is sugested to use aileron instead.

Take a look here: http://rangevideo.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2939&postcount=1

RVOSD autopilot setup:
If you are using the OSD autopilot for the first time it is highly recommendable to setup the OSD in a plane that you already maiden and that it is trimmed and balanced.
The OSD autopilot flies your plane by using rudder output to control heading and elevator output to control altitude. Aileron output will be always set to the preset value stored when you adjust “set neutrals” menu item.
You can use two setups to use the autopilot. This is the basic setup for planes that can control heading with rudder only, and the best when you don’t have the thermopile attitude sensors installed:
Receiver elevator output --> OSD elevator input/output --> Elevator servo
Receiver aileron output --> OSD aileron input/output --> Aileron servos
Receiver throttle output --> OSD throttle input/output --> ESC input
Receiver rudder output --> OSD rudder input/output --> Rudder servo

If the thermopile attitude sensors are installed, and your plane control heading much better with ailerons you can use the following setup, notice that rudder and aileron channels are reversed:

Receiver elevator output --> OSD elevator input/output --> Elevator servo
Receiver aileron output --> OSD rudder input/output --> Aileron servos
Receiver throttle output --> OSD throttle input/output --> ESC input
Receiver rudder output --> OSD aileron input/output --> Rudder servo

For flying wings RVOSD will do the elevon mixing so let your transmitter to do normal outputs, you can use the following setup on the OSD:

Receiver elevator output --> OSD elevator input/output --> Elevon servo #1
OSD aileron input/output, is available to set a failsafe on autopilot mode for anything you want.
Receiver throttle output --> OSD throttle input/output --> ESC input
Receiver aileron output --> OSD rudder input/output --> Elevon servo #2

[bascuhadar]

Thanks Alex, it's clear now.

[bascuhadar]

Ok, yes I see autopilot rudder is not working. Working on it now. Sorry for taking so long to test this but I have a lot of pending work here.

Thanks Alex, we all understand and wait for your ground station upgrade with a great interest.

[FVA]

If the thermopile attitude sensors are installed, and your plane control heading much better with ailerons you can use the following setup, notice that rudder and aileron channels are reversed:

Receiver elevator output --> OSD elevator input/output --> Rudder servo
Receiver aileron output --> OSD rudder input/output --> Aileron servos
Receiver throttle output --> OSD throttle input/output --> ESC input
Receiver rudder output --> OSD aileron input/output --> Rudder servo



Alex
It turns out two rudders by the plane? Where to connect an elevator? You were not mistaken? ;)

[Alex Villa]

Sorry, it was a mistake. The first one is elevator

[Alex Villa]

Alex, I know that you are very busy for the ground station but idea of having a chance to use IR sensors with GEN1 really exited me, waiting for your PM.

İlhan

I sugest to use ferrite + capacitor SMD on each input to make sure interference dont create havoc inside the MCU ADC.

[Gus5610]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Villa
Gen1 does not have the internal wiring for thermopiles connection. I dont think is practical to do it manually.

If there is a way, I am willing to try. Just show me the way.
Unquote//

Dear Alex:

Could that possible you also PM me how to do it? I would like to try as well thought I already back ordered RVOSD G4

Cheers

[Alex Villa]

I sugest to use ferrite + capacitor SMD on each input to make sure interference dont create havoc inside the MCU ADC.
Hi Gus,
The work needed to make gen1 work with termopiles, require somehow advanced skills in electronics, and soldering SMD components.
If you have those skills the picture and instructions in my previous post is all you need to do it, if you require aditional instructions or you dont understand the picture, I think is better that you dont attempt this modification.

[Gus5610]

I am pretty ok with electronic soldering but just not sure what the Vcc and Gnd of IR sensor should be connected with the RVOSD?? Not sure what is the voltage will be and if it is ok with you, please let me know.
I already have XY & Z sensorsavailable now which were purchased from DIY drones.
//Quote
instructions in my previous post is all you need to do it
Unquote//
I must missed out this parts, can someone tell me where it might be??

Cheers

[Alex Villa]

I think it is a risky mod, but if you want to do it... The sensors are feed with 3V. You can find it in one of the interconnects between the boards, the 3rd one, looking from the GPS connector. Ground is the first one.

[Burnt Offering]

OK having read this entire post from start to finish, I have more questions then answers. I have a Gen 3 RVOSD that I have hardly used as I have been waiting like so many others for the IR sensors to become available. I have ordered mine and hopefully they will be shipped very soon. After reading this thread I have some MAJOR concerns. The most pressing is weather or not I can effectivly use this OSD on my plane. I am now in the 4th and final prototype of a plane that I have designed myself along with a very good friend of mine. I have posted a picture of it below. This plane in every way flys magnificently. It was designed to fly in just about any kind of weather namley wind which it does beautifully, which explains the low profile and the flat wing. I have my latest one sitting in my shop awaiting the IR sensors to install. As a result of reading this thread I have red flags going up all over the place. First, anyone who has ever really flown in any substantial wind would NEVER rely on rudders to guide a plane home flat wing or not. For those of us that have flow in a strong crosswind know this would be suicide. So lets get to the crux of this post. In laymans terms my questions are as follows.

First question: I want to hook up my auto pilot to the AILERONS. If I do this by hooking up the ailerons to the rudder out, do I lose the functionality of my rudder? In other words will both work as they are suppose to?

Second question: If the answer to my first question is no, then are you telling me that in order to get the ailerons to work simultaneously with the rudder I have to have ANOTHER form of stabilization in ADDITION to the RVOSD? If so, we have a serious problem Houston.

[seaQ]

Burnt Offering; When you connect your Ailerons to your rudder output the autopilot will use ailerons to stabilize/turn the plane (only works with IR sensors). The rudder, connected to the ailerons channel on RVOSD will be set to Neutral flight position when the autopilot is active.

If the AP isn't active you got full movement of both ailerons and rudder.

Hope this clears things up for you!

[Alex Villa]

First question: I want to hook up my auto pilot to the AILERONS. If I do this by hooking up the ailerons to the rudder out, do I lose the functionality of my rudder? In other words will both work as they are suppose to?

The aileron channel on RVOSD is a pass through channel so you will have manual control of it, and it will be set to neutral on any of the autopilot modes


Second question: If the answer to my first question is no, then are you telling me that in order to get the ailerons to work simultaneously with the rudder I have to have ANOTHER form of stabilization in ADDITION to the RVOSD? If so, we have a serious problem Houston.

With gen 2-3-4 OSDs you only need the external thermal sensors. Everything else is done inside RVOSD.

[Burnt Offering]

SeaQ, OK NOW I understand. THAT scenario I can live with. However I must say that Vova and Alex, you guys need to expand your horizons beyond the mindset of just an Easystar application for your OSD. After flying fixed wing for 35 years I can't imagine ANY scenario where I would want my rudders to guide me home having flown with just them in windy situations. If you have any experience at all, then most of you will have experienced the utter hoplessnes of a strong crosswind in which the wind pushed down on the top of the wing and creates a non recoverable situation. I understand that for an Easystar this might be fine considering the dehidral, but with the more sophisticated platforms coming out that will use your OSD, I think the configuration would be better suited for ailerons without having to switch the servo outputs.

[reznikvova]

I think there was confusion.
RVOSD can control ailerons, and it is better to have the RVOSD autopilot control the ailerons rather than the rudder.

Just connect the aileron servo tothe RVOSD 'rudder output' port.

You don't lose the rudder function.

[Alex Villa]

RVOSD autopilot can control flying wings, rudder only planes and ailerons, just by swapping the control I/Os. Actually the only problem I see here is that the labels are set for rudder control.
Maybe we can just label it servo1 in, servo 2in... etc.

[seaQ]

Burnt Offering; I think you should take a look at the manual too fully understand the functions of the AP.

[Burnt Offering]

Its all good guys! I am satified Ha! As long as my ailerons are the ones doing the work when my autopilot is on I am happy. I have only used the RVOSD in a test flight application so far. I am really anxious to get it in my new plane and really put it through the paces. So far, by all indications it is a fantastic product. Since all of my flying will be done by FPV with long sustained flights, I was getting nervous with the whole rudder/autopilot scenario. I just didn't want that question nagging me. As I get closer to installation I will be asking many questions. You guys are great. Keep up the good work. Last question. When are the IR sensors going to be shipped?

[peecee]

:D
OK having read this entire post from start to finish, I have more questions then answers. I have a Gen 3 RVOSD that I have hardly used as I have been waiting like so many others for the IR sensors to become available. I have ordered mine and hopefully they will be shipped very soon. After reading this thread I have some MAJOR concerns. The most pressing is weather or not I can effectivly use this OSD on my plane. I am now in the 4th and final prototype of a plane that I have designed myself along with a very good friend of mine. I have posted a picture of it below. This plane in every way flys magnificently. It was designed to fly in just about any kind of weather namley wind which it does beautifully, which explains the low profile and the flat wing. I have my latest one sitting in my shop awaiting the IR sensors to install. As a result of reading this thread I have red flags going up all over the place. First, anyone who has ever really flown in any substantial wind would NEVER rely on rudders to guide a plane home flat wing or not. For those of us that have flow in a strong crosswind know this would be suicide. So lets get to the crux of this post. In laymans terms my questions are as follows.

First question: I want to hook up my auto pilot to the AILERONS. If I do this by hooking up the ailerons to the rudder out, do I lose the functionality of my rudder? In other words will both work as they are suppose to?

Second question: If the answer to my first question is no, then are you telling me that in order to get the ailerons to work simultaneously with the rudder I have to have ANOTHER form of stabilization in ADDITION to the RVOSD? If so, we have a serious problem Houston.

Hi Burnt offering
I have a mpx Mentor hooked up with RVOSD controlling the ailerons . This plane is about 2.5 Kgs .It is by no means a sleek plane. The autopilot is brilliant :D .when I fly, I mainly use rudder for direction and aileron for curcuits . If you look at my video http://www.vimeo.com/9613658 you can see when I travel north my speed is 20-30 kmh and on the return the speed is alot faster due to the wind . the wind wasn't gusting but it was strong . The Rvosd is great and with some fine tunning you will extremly happy with it. Pic of my plane here http://www.rangevideo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=359&page=8

Hope this helps

Regards Brett

[Burnt Offering]

Hey Brett, thanks for the info. My plane has a 6 foot wingspan and will be carrying lots of camera gear. Fully loaded it weigh 6.5 pounds. I use it to do Proffesional Aerial Photography and I switch between a HD camcorder and a nice stills camera. The construction is foam and carbon fiber. The flat wing with the dual booms is amazing in the wind but because of the lack of dehidral, the rudders have a tendancy to "scoot" the rear of the plane around instead of "bank" it making it less than ideal for stabilizing the plane. Hence my concern about the ailerons. I have had previous models of planes with another stabilizer called the Spartan AP 2000i. It is an amazing stabilization system the only problem is it doesn't come with all the great stuff that the RVOSD has, AHI, HUD, RTH, etc etc. I am already impressed with the RVOSD, and am just waiting for my IR sensors to get here so I can get it configured permanantly on my plane.:D

[richard in australia]

Hi Alex, i've just converted to aileron and elevator according to instructions i found from you on another thread and so far everything seems to work - on ground anyway, have not flown plane with RVOSD yet, only fail safe.

Above you said: Aileron channel output its always set to a steady value set on the menu "Set neutral aileron", and all the corrections are made on the rudder output channel.

Is this still true for me with elevator and aileron RVOSD setup?

[seaQ]

If you connect your rudder on the "rudder output channel", your rudder will be used to navigate the plane. If you connect your ailerons on the "rudder output channel", your ailerons will be used to navigate the plane. In the latter case you need IR sensors for it too work though.

[richard in australia]

yep - got all that. Just making sure that the "set neutral Aileron" in setup screen still remains the same.

While i have you, i looked at a couple of photos of the plane mentioned above and discovered that his X - Y sensors are mounted in the shape of an X instead of the config + in relation to the fuse pointing in the direction I

Do you follow me and do you have an answer?

Regards, Rich

[tiga284]

You can mount the x-y sensor at 45 degrees or straight, whatever is better on your setup. You have to change the setting in the autopilot menu to 45 or 0 degrees.

[richard in australia]

understood - thanks tiga

Are you an elevator / aileron user or elevator / rudder?

Rich

[tiga284]

Was niether, had rvosd in a funjet but now have put into a clouds fly so am going to use elev and ailerons but my gps died so I am waiting for its arrival. No stock at rangevideo so I ordered from elswhere. Rth worked well on my funjet even though it was not tuned properly it saved the plane.

Mark

[richard in australia]

Bugger about your stuff.

Here's a look at my app.

2.8 kilos, Kx191 up front, Lumix camera for stills (servo activated) and 720 video mounted at CG.

Patches coming from USA and Tx boosted X 5 times. see link if you're keen:

http://diydrones.com/profiles/blogs/how-to-boost-your-24ghz

Tally Ho old chap

Rich

[richard in australia]

Mark,

disregard booster Tx photo - read the threads attached to find out why or just ask but it seems it's more difficult than just attaching it to Tx... have to convert DX6i to Europe standard or the Amp might blow... 20db is pushing limits. Get back to me if you're interested in this

Rich

[DragunoZ]

I think there was confusion.
RVOSD can control ailerons, and it is better to have the RVOSD autopilot control the ailerons rather than the rudder.

Just connect the aileron servo tothe RVOSD 'rudder output' port.

You don't lose the rudder function.

Are you sure, by swapping the channells is a better solution to stabilize more-than-rolling, than adding an extra item menu for ailerons-rudder-elev stabilisation? Since, *imo* ailerons and rudder worked on different axis *ailerons for roll, rudder to control nose left/right* pardon my english.

Will this solution will mis-read the stabilizer sensors data?

May i suggest, please add an extra or maybe a complete ailerons-rudder-elevator-stabilizer in Gen. 4.

We deserved the best products from RV, right?

[Alex Villa]

Are you sure, by swapping the channells is a better solution to stabilize more-than-rolling, than adding an extra item menu for ailerons-rudder-elev stabilisation? Since, *imo* ailerons and rudder worked on different axis *ailerons for roll, rudder to control nose left/right* pardon my english.

Will this solution will mis-read the stabilizer sensors data?

May i suggest, please add an extra or maybe a complete ailerons-rudder-elevator-stabilizer in Gen. 4.

We deserved the best products from RV, right?
You can change the heading of your airplane by using ailerons or rudder. Because the dynamics of the flight of our planes makes it to do so.
Of course it is more efficient to roll a plane with the ailerons, and some planes will not show close coupling between yaw and roll.
However we found that using ailerons to control roll and heading is the easiest way for the onboard computer to fly the models on planes with ailerons. And rudder control works nice on planes without ailerons, because the dihedral (actually this is what you do in manual mode).
A more sophisticated control can be achieved by using ailerons and rudder for heading control. And it will be done eventually, but right now we have pending work on other projects with a higher priority level.

[y.mita]

I think it is a risky mod, but if you want to do it... The sensors are feed with 3V. You can find it in one of the interconnects between the boards, the 3rd one, looking from the GPS connector. Ground is the first one.

Mr. Alex,

Please give me little bit more information to modify my Gen1 OSD to add IR sensor.

I already read the circuit of IR sensor on Gen4 PCB, but need little bit more information.

I think each signal from IR sensor go through the ferrite and grounded by capacitor and register (22 kohm) and X goes into AN5, Y AN2, Z AN10 of dsPIC33. But I can't read the value of capacitor and ferrite.

Please teach me the value of ferrite and capacitor, because I think the impedance matching is very important for measurement circuit.

[Alex Villa]

Capacitors are 0.001uF, ferrites are 0805 120Ohm. But none of those elements are critical. The IR sensors output is low impedance. So basically those elements are to protect against RF interference.

[y.mita]

Capacitors are 0.001uF, ferrites are 0805 120Ohm. But none of those elements are critical. The IR sensors output is low impedance. So basically those elements are to protect against RF interference.

Mr.Alex,

Thank you very much of your kindly help!
I'll try modify, may be last week end of May, and report it again here!

And if success, I'll order next IR sensor at RV!:D

[Alex Villa]

Mr.Alex,

Thank you very much of your kindly help!
I'll try modify, may be last week end of May, and report it again here!

And if success, I'll order next IR sensor at RV!:D
Is this (http://vimeo.com/11965405) a video of G1 with the thermopiles added?

[y.mita]

Is this (http://vimeo.com/11965405) a video of G1 with the thermopiles added?

Mr.Alex,

Thank you always watching my video !
No, that video is Gen4 with thermopiles.

Gen1 with thermopiles is here (http://vimeo.com/11963990)
But this time, I make a mistake and interchange signal connection as Y sensor to X input, Z sensor to Y input, X sensor to Z input.:p
Then, AHI jumps around center circle!

That's why I can't report here this week!

Next weekend, I'll try again and report my video here.

Little bit my soldering work photo.
First one is connection of signal input leads. Each leads stick PCB with hot-bond. At right down side, I gets 3.3V and GND from voltage regulator.
Next photo is my remember for signal connection to thermopiles.

[Alex Villa]

Good work! I see you already lost L1 and had to short it. Looking at your good soldering skills I will sugest you to do a change on the GPS board. We noticed that some GPS modules are noiser than others and this change might do some improvment to the GPS signal. Plus it could make your barometric altitude readings more stable.

http://rangevideo.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=502&stc=1&d=1274717213

[y.mita]

Good work! I see you already lost L1 and had to short it. Looking at your good soldering skills I will sugest you to do a change on the GPS board. We noticed that some GPS modules are noiser than others and this change might do some improvment to the GPS signal. Plus it could make your barometric altitude readings more stable.

http://rangevideo.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=502&stc=1&d=1274717213

Mr.Alex,

Thank you again!

Today, I search in my parts box for trying your suggestion. But I only have 1.0uF capacitor which size is 1608.

Of cource I know absolutely value of capacitor is not necessity, but I want to make more near value.
Then stack 5 chips around left chip! 5.0uF!!!:D
Please laugh it!
I think this is the limit of my soldering skill, or next stack makes short circuit of power and GND!

I'll try this GPS this weekend!

[Alex Villa]

lol, I forgot to mention that 1uF removes enough interference. :P

Now dont forget to tell me if this made any improvment to you.

[y.mita]

Yeasterday, I took video of Gen1 with thermopiles.
My Gen1 with thermopiles video is here (http://vimeo.com/12132124).
I connected thermopiles signal with 22kohm and 0.001uF to ground. No ferrites.
And the GPS is FGPMMOPA6B which bought only module. (without PCB and Mr.Alex's adviced modification)
The modified GPS use with Gen4, at this video (http://vimeo.com/12145055). It's seems more stable of barometric altitude indication.

Thank you again, Mr.Alex !
I can continuously using my Gen1 RVOSD with AHI, and I'll fly every weekend !!!

[y.mita]

Dear Gus5610,

I got PM from you about Gen1 upgrade last weekend.

First, I think to reply you with PM, but last I think its good to answer you on this thread because if I make mistake, somebody can correct me, and we can share the knowledge.
Then please forgive me to reply you like this way ( and my poor english, too!).

I think this is a very risky modification.
Please modify by your responsibility!
Please modify and check very, very carefully!

I use these tools and solder, solder-remover and wire.

Soldering iron: Very sharp 30W or 18W soldering iron. (photo01)
Solder:0.8mm and 0.3mm solder (photo02)
Solder-remover: THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT I don't know how you call this remover in English.
Copper wire wick? Push this wick to solder removeing place and heat with soldering iron. (photo03)
Wires:0.32mm and 0.2mm. More thin is better. (photo04)

This is my way of modification of Gen1 RVOSD. (photo05)

1.Research register value around pulling out signals. And record values for after modification check.
Use digital volt meter and sewing pins for contact very narrow IC pins.
After soldering, check with records for short circuit.

2.Presolder IC pins. Don't care of short circuit this time!
This presolder will remove rust of solder and add some extra solder on IC pins.

3.Remove presolder by Copper wire wick. (photo06 but simulate photo)

4.Check short circuit. If still short, do again step 3.

5.Presolder wire.

6.Place wire firmly on IC pin. Push wire by soldering iron.
Then solder melt and joint wire and pin.

7.Check around wire and IC pins. Check about joint and short circuit.

8.Stick wire on PCB by hot-bond. (photo07)
Without this, it can easily removed wire from IC pin, or pilloff IC pins from PCB copper foil!

9.Power supply to thermopiles and Ground can get from 3-pin regulator(I don't know correct name).(photo08)
The center pin is 3.3V and right side pin is ground. But sometime RVOSD seems changeing PCB parts placement.
Please search around similar IC, and check connection with GPS power supply pins.

10.Make filter circuit on universal PCB. (photo09)
I think you don't need small parts SMD soldering with great difficult!
You can easily make filter with normal size parts.
I use 22k ohm 1/16W register and 0.001uF 16V capacitor. No ferrites.

Connect as: (edited at 17th June, see #88)

with ferrites:

IC pin
l
l
ferrites 120 ohm
l
+---22kohm R----GND
l
+---0.001uF C---GND
l
l
thermopiles connector


without ferrites

IC pin
l
l
+---470 ohm to 1kohm R----GND
l
+---0.001uF C---GND
l
l
thermopiles connector

11.Make 2.0mm pitch connector by cutting and glueing universal IC socket. (photo10)
This is for connecting thermopiles. But if you connect directly to filter, unnecessary.

12.Check connection and short circuit again and again, before power on.

Good luck!

[y.mita]

(continue of #87)

[Alex Villa]

You did a nice job. The only thing can be improved is not using 22K resistors. 470 Ohm to 1K should be the correct value if not using ferrites.

I think that 22K will cause slower response of the AHI.

[y.mita]

You did a nice job. The only thing can be improved is not using 22K resistors. 470 Ohm to 1K should be the correct value if not using ferrites.

I think that 22K will cause slower response of the AHI.

Thank you, Mr.Alex!:D

I think you re-calculate filter without ferrites.

I'll try of more low ohm register, but seems to buy new thermopiles before try it.
My Gen4 and thermopiles are now working on UrbanXC glider and can't remove from it!

[Gus5610]

I also done it on this Thursday. Thanks Mita your details explain but I can not wait for your reply and done it with my way. It looks great from the screen and perhaps I will try it tomorrow. Will let you know the results.

BRGDS/Augusto Chang

[Gus5610]

Mita:

In order to avoid short IC circuit, I use epoxy to give a very light glue on the IC that I do not want to solder. so there are only 3pins has been single out without epoxy on it and I use very fine wire of raw copper wire solder on it. It take me 1 hour at the beginning but after I grape the tricks, I sold the all 3 pin only in 10 mins. Than I use other think wires to connect all of tham and also connect SMD 120 ohm suggested by Alex. As I can not test it at night and have to work during day time. I might have a test flight tomorrow to see how is it going.

Thanks Mita and Alex for sharing and providing all the information.

[Alex Villa]

You guys are impressioning me. I never though about making this public because the delicate nature of this mod. But you sir had done this brilliant.

[kelly]

I have a gen one but it does not work . maybe if it gets fixed I could do this mod.